Elisa Mallis: Can one change business? And can business change the world?
- Presenting at the European International Coach Federation in Norway
Interviewed by Karim Beers
As a child, when asked the typical adult question “What do you want to be when you grow up?”, Elisa Mallis did not have a clear answer. But she knew that she didn’t want to work in the world of business. She was interested more in people, how they think, what makes them happy and most of all, how to help them. After all, her father was a businessman, and the world he belonged to was one where the briefcases, meetings, starched suits, and money appeared so large that there did not seem to be any room left for spirit or the needs, growth, and happiness of people.
Many years later, with Masters degrees in both Organizational and Counseling Psychology, Elisa is living in the UK and working for Accenture, a global consulting firm. Her area of expertise is human performance, which focuses on improving engagement and productivity levels of the most valuable and important element of organizations, their people. Elisa has also been the Selection Committee Chair of the International Spirit at Work Award for the last three years, which honors companies that have explicit spiritual practices, policies and programs. And in 2006 she was invited to serve as an EBBF board member. She spoke recently with EBBF about how she personally managed to bridge the worlds of spirituality and business, worlds which as a child she saw so far apart.
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EBBF: First of all, how did you end up in consulting?
Elisa: Well, as a child I had some clear ideas about work that still hold true for me today: that we spend such a significant proportion of our time and life energy at work, if we don’t enjoy it and, more importantly, if it doesn’t contribute to our evolution, it’s a waste of time. By evolution I mean positive individual development, which in turn can affect those around us as well as collective positive development. This is where the concept of holistic people development comes in. The experience and development we each get from our work and in our workplace, is not only critical for your own well-being, but also for the well-being of society. We spend such a large proportion of our lives working, so if it’s not enjoyable and does not help us develop then what’s the point?
Although I liked science and math, and I started off university on a track toward becoming a doctor, I quickly realized that medicine was not for me and felt I really wanted to understand people and their behavior, and so I made and important shift into the field of psychology. In Greek, psychology literally means the ‘the word of the soul’ and if you look back to the inception of psychology in ancient times it was about that, the spirit or soul of the person. I was really fascinated by this concept. But in modern psychology the spiritual part has been conceptually divorced from the rest of the person, and the science and practice of psychology is focused on a person’s mental or emotional states. I was interested in the original meaning of psychology, and believed that it is also about spiritual health and well-being, and searched for different places where this was being explored.
At Columbia University I studied both organizational psychology and counseling psychology, and through my coursework became exposed to systems theory and the relationship dynamics that influence a group and its functioning. I was a bit impatient with the one-on-one work I was doing in clinical psychology and strongly attracted to the idea of working with groups and organisations to bring about change that would have a strong impact on the individuals in that group, on the organisation, and to a certain degree on the society in which the organization operates. I felt this was more aligned to my strengths as well. When I completed my organizational psychology degree Accenture was recruiting and although I didn’t have a business background, to my surprise, I was hired. I decided to give it a try and haven’t looked back since. It wasn’t until I discovered the interaction between business, organizations and how you make change in the world that I was able to overcome the barrier I had placed between myself and the world of business.
- EBBF Board of Directors: Elisa is 4th from the right
EBBF: Often one chooses a job because you happen upon it, or because you find a certain line of work enjoyable. While you seem to find satisfaction with your job, it seems that you when you chose your work your motivation went beyond this satisfaction. Can you say something more about your interest in helping organizations change?
Elisa: For me it comes down to something fundamental about human existence and purpose and how organizations can be attuned to this. Again, if someone is not developing and their work does not provide an opportunity to lift and develop their level of consciousness—that is, to become more self aware and aware of the needs of others, then their work is not serving them or those around them. Underneath this is a conviction that all beings share the desire to be happy. All people are ultimately going after the same thing. They may manifest this desire by pursuing material things—because this is what they think will make them happy—but they are ultimately seeking happiness.
I believe people both want to be happy and deserve to be happy. We all have a purpose in the world: we are here to improve ourselves and to help each other. And I believe that everything is interconnected. Everything we think, every thought we have, has an impact on the universe. Thoughts are made of energy, as is everything else in the universe, so our thoughts transmit this energy and have an impact on others. The fundamental principle is that everyone wants and deserves to be happy, and to me, being here means we have the responsibility to work toward everyone’s happiness.
The whole planet is in a way a single organism. It is as if you had a person, and one part of the person is sick. Even though the other parts of the body may appear to be in good health, the fact that one part is ill, will affect the whole body which means that that is not a state of happiness or well-being for the whole. It is exactly the same in the world. It is impossible for us to be happy unless we’re promoting the well-being and happiness of other people. So I think that working with organizations provides an opportunity to promote well being and ultimately promote development and growth. And I have found that in business there is potential to have a significant impact on a large number of people.
EBBF: Do you find any contradictions in holding onto these ideals and principles and the world within you work? This is a world in which according a recent article in the Guardian, 1% or the world’s population own 40% of the wealth, and an increasing number of people in the last decades are living on less than $2 a day (some 2.8 billion, almost half the population). Business is arguably the most potent force influencing the present political-economic system, and is responsible to a large degree for this increasing polarization of wealth. So for someone like you who is working for a world of global prosperity, where well-being of people is at the center of their conception of development, is it a contradiction to work for business, the central player in an economic system where bald profit is the bottom line?
Elisa: First of all I think it is important to realize that the economic system is something that we all have to deal with in the world—government, NGOs, as well as for-profit organizations. Everyone is affected by it; all organizational life is connected to that economic system. And it isn’t just that we are all affected by the system, we all participate in its existence and permanence in a way. On a fundamental level the economic system is just a manifestation of the consciousness of our society, which is rooted in beliefs that are materialistic. To some degree this economic system fosters the development of people’s lower qualities, such as selfishness and greed, which are then allowed to play out and drive this system. So while the system is being driven by business, if society weren’t feeding it—for example, if consumers didn’t demand violent movies and various consumer goods—the system could not survive. And we have to realize that the world around us is something that is collectively created.
Also, while it is true that the realm of business is the major culprit in perpetuating the current system, we must also recognize that it represents a major area and driving force in which to create change. Business has a lot of power and authority in affecting the world’s economic system. If we are going to make a change in this system, wouldn’t we choose to work with the entity that has the greatest authority and power?
And while we can at times be at odd with some things in business, we can’t be completely resentful of business if we are going to influence it. The founder of the International Spirit at Work award, Judi Neal, wrote a book called Edgewalkers, which is about people who live between different worlds, two different continents, between the spiritual and material, and who are able to bridge these worlds. In every kind of organizations there are many people who want to push their organization to the edge—that is, towards positive change. But in order to be successful, it is important not to go over the edge. That is, if the proposed change is so radical, and doesn’t fit at all into the thinking or doesn’t make sense for people who have power to make decisions then you will no longer have influence in making changes. The Edgewalker concept is interesting; it shows you have to be ‘in’ enough to have credibility in the business context, but at the same time you have to have enough courage to promote what you really believe in. And sometimes, not betraying these principles forces you to go over the edge.
EBBF: Have you ever faced this situation of being pushed ‘to the edge’ or over it, where you were caught between your principles and what other people you work for or with want?
Elisa: I do not feel I’ve been pushed over the edge. There have been two occasions when I’ve been asked to join a project which I have not wanted to join because I did not feel my values were aligned with the values of the client that we would be serving—for example with defense-related organizations. After expressing my preference and taking a stand, I was given the opportunity to choose other appropriate roles working with clients for whom I felt positive and happy to contribute. In situations where I’ve taken a stand for something that I believed in at work, I have never had the door slammed in my face. Sometimes it’s taken time to find an opening, but I’ve always found a path to pursue what I believe in and so I’ve continued.
- Elisa and co-worker at Accenture booth at the Public Service Leadership Conference in London
EBBF: You’ve mentioned that you see work as purposeful when it contributes to higher goals, namely to individual and social progress that reflects the reality of the oneness of humanity. What are some of the most significant things you’ve done, seen done, or think people can do in the world of business in order to contribute to this kind of change?
Elisa: First of all, in order to contribute to this type of change I think it’s necessary for executives to take time to reflect on decisions being made in the broader context of what’s really important and meaningful to us as individuals and leaders. We need to operate from our “big picture” spiritual context rather than blindly following short-term goals that have little or no meaning.
In the world of business I think that efforts to have leaders connect with their spiritual core promote greater collaboration and decisions that contribute to higher goals. Well-being is a very important concept that is getting more attention in the corporate world. If employees are not well, business cannot thrive in the longer term. Keeping individuals’ well-being as a priority is something I’ve tried to make sure I do. Some examples of this in my role as a Manager/Leader include: Taking time to know what people want, what is important to them, and how they are doing; making sure they are getting the opportunity to develop in the ways that are important to them; checking on their overall well-being and supporting them if with any health issues (this support includes ensuring they are taking time to rest when they’ve been ill). For example, one of the members of my team suddenly had her appendix removed last week. She is very engaged and enthusiastic and wanted to come back to work after a few days. I insisted she stay home and as a team we sent her flowers and a card. I think she’s actually been doing work, but hiding it from me because she knows I will insist she should be resting.
Also, it is important for us to prioritize people issues and people development above everything else. There have been a couple situations over the last year where a people issue has come in at a time when ten other critical things were happening. At these moments I’ve always taken a step back to reflect and remember that these issues come first, and then stopped whatever else I’ve been doing to provide the proper amount of time to deal with these issues comprehensively and compassionately.
Within Accenture itself I see more and more programs related to well-being introduced, and this is very encouraging and inspiring for me. Examples include: much more investment in our Corporate Citizenship programmes; an accent on religion programme; an increasingly visible and substantial programme to lessen our impact on the environment; and growing women’s initiatives that have been inspiring for me and many other women within Accenture.
These are just some examples. But in general I think there are countless opportunities to effect change through business—and we must seize these opportunities. If business is left to people who are only interested in personal short term gain, there will be very negative outcomes for the world at large. There are trends toward a focus on human capital rather than exclusively on financial capital. For example, David Cameron, member of the British parliament, is talking about an indicator of gross national well-being; Bhutan uses one that measures not GDP, but “GNH”—that is, gross national happiness! In the EBBF Enterprise of the future event, we talked about new trends in organizations and business. One trend we discussed is that organizations are going to be increasingly interested in the health and well-being of their employees. Companies are realizing that when people aren’t well, it costs them a great deal of money. So it is in business’ interest to help people be healthy, feel good, and be happy at work. And business is just starting to see this.
- Elisa and husband at ISAW award ceremony
EBBF: During the course of our extended conversation for this interview while working full-time and maintaining your regular family and service commitments, you’ve been to China and back, and we have even had an international call while you were travelling on a London-bound train. So what keeps you going?
Elisa: First of all, the sense of the purpose that we’ve already discussed, which drives most of the things that I do in my work. My husband keeps me going. We have the same spiritual context and get a great deal of strength from each other. We have common spiritual practices; one example is a prayer that we say together. Spending quality time with my husband is so important to me, and our spending time with our friends and family is something we really value. Practicing yoga, spending time in nature and my involvement in the ISAW award and EBBF are some of the activities outside work that I feel also promote my well being.
EBBF: Bringing about the kind of change we want to society isn’t a quick or simple task. It requires persistent effort, and so it seems clear that you need a perennial source of motivation and energy. The Bahá’í Writings say that faith is “conscious knowledge in action”, that spirituality has to manifested in deeds. Does this ring true for you?
Elisa: I think I would agree with that statement. One thing that characterizes me and is what I consider a personal strength is a very practical nature: a desire to see things happen and see results. As a consultant my real interest is in the implementation phase. On a strategic level we can have an aspirational vision, of what we would like to see happen, but when try to put this vision into practice and make things happen, that’s when ‘the rubber hits the road’, and we see if these ideas work or not. This is one of the reasons I am involved in the International Spirit at Work Award. We can have a lot of ideals, but let’s see what these ideals mean in action, what works—let’s see how they can be implemented. Can you have a spiritual organization that is profitable both in money and nurturing spirituality? And what does it look like? Let’s get into the real thing not just the theory. That’s what brings me to change consulting, trying to make things happen. Not just five steps to follow on a PowerPoint slide, but to be in the difficult with people, to be ‘in the weeds’.
One of my favorite quotes is “be the change you want to see in the world” by Mahatma Gandhi. Making change happen isn’t easy; there is never a clear picture from the start. But that doesn’t mean we just give up, or that it’s not possible for these changes to be implemented in business life or in life in general in order to improve the human condition. For me it means we need to work through all the big and little things, all the problems, sadness and the difficult emotions. Because the world is full of these things. And if we want to have beautiful world, we have to accept and constructively work through all the shitty stuff. And yes, I think a willingness to do this, and to keep on doing this without giving up, is a powerful and practical manifestation of spirituality.
